The Epoch Times: Exclusive Interview with Chinese Diplomatic Defector Chen Yonglin

Jun 13, 2005

Former Chinese Consul Mr. Chen Yonglin (The Epoch Times)

SYDNEY -- Chen Yonglin, a diplomat at the Chinese consulate in Sydney, who defected recently, has for the first time revealed to the public the Chinese Communist Party's (CCP)extensive espionage network overseas. His actions inspired two other former CCP officials, who disclosed more facts about the CCP's persecution of overseas dissidents and Falun Gong practitioners. The Epoch Times conducted an exclusive interview with Chen on his current situation and his view of the CCP.

Reporter: You appeared at a public gathering to commemorate the Tiananmen Square Massacre and exposed the CCP's network of spies in Australia. You and your wife also withdrew from the CCP on The Epoch Times website. Has the CCP taken further actions to threaten you and your family?

Chen: When I spoke at the gathering, I received wide support and sympathy from the public. I don't feel as threatened as before and basically feel safe. Darkness will disappear when exposed to the sunlight. When the truth was exposed, I felt much safer. But the wicked force of the CCP has yet to be cleared away, and the threat still exists. In addition, the Australian government has not decided whether to accept my asylum application, so I could be sent back to China anytime and continue to be persecuted by the dictatorship of the CCP.

Reporter: The trade relationship between China and Australia is becoming close. The CCP also has extensive power overseas. Why did you take such a big risk to reveal inside CCP information and break away from it?

Chen: My conscience urged me to step forward. For many years, I was tormented by guilt. My conscience was compromised and worn away. If I continued with what I was doing, I would lose myself and completely become a part of the machine. For the last six months, the consulate has conducted "CCP Member Advanced Education Sessions," which were essentially brainwashing classes. These sessions were tormenting me mentally. What I was doing was persecuting what democracy advocates and Falun Gong practitioners. This was against my conscience and caused me to suffer from guilt. Under these circumstances, I had to step forward and step out of the shadow.

Reporter: You're now awaiting the decision on your political asylum application. What kind of public support do you need?

Chen: Now I am still uncertain whether I can stay in Australia. It is still possible for the Australian government to send me back to China. I hope the public can continue to give me encouragement and support, and publicise my case more widely. This will make me feel safer and help me step out of the darkness.

Reporter: I've heard that parents from your daughter's school specifically held a rally to support you. Can you tell us more about this?

Chen: I received several messages of support in these two days. Parents and teachers from my daughter's school held "family support" activities to support us. This shows that Australian mainstream society is paying attention and giving support to China's human rights problems. I am here to thank them for their support and help.

Reporter: You were originally in charge of dealing with overseas Falun Gong practitioners, democratic activists, Tibetan groups and Taiwan groups, etc. How did you monitor them?

Chen: Our monitoring is really to find out their activities here, their new movements and what they do. Then we could report this information to the CCP, and the CCP would take some specific counter-actions. It's the same as the so-called tit-for-tat struggle, that is to suppress pro-democratic movements in order to protect its own tyranny. I had greatly supported pro-democratic movements since the June 4th Tiananmen Massacre. Now, I support democratic movements even more. I hope that one day China will fundamentally change its political system.

Reporter: Some people say if a diplomat chooses to defect, he is considered a traitor to the country. How do you view this comment?

Chen: As a diplomat, I am supposed to serve my country. But what I am doing here is not at all protecting my nations' interest, but rather persecuting my own people and myself. In fact, I became a tool used by the CCP to persecute my people. This is against my conscience. I have not betrayed my country. What I betrayed is a dictating party that had long been detested by the world's people.

Reporter: No matter how the CCP used the measures "to maintain the advanced nature of party members," more than 2 million people in Mainland China have declared their withdrawal from the Chinese Communist Party, Communist Youth League, and the Young Pioneers, completely breaking away from the CCP's despotic rule, and this number is increasing rapidly every day. How do you view this big tide of withdrawing from the CCP?

Chen: The big tide of withdrawing from the CCP is historically inevitable. One day, the CCP will have only a few people left. Finally, people will stand up and destroy it. At that time, the era of democracy will come. The CCP preaches the Three Represents, "advanced nature of party members" and launches the movement "to maintain the advanced nature of party members," but in fact it is rotten to the core, nothing works.

Reporter: As a Chinese diplomat, at what level is your standard of living?

Chen: In China, it is lower middle class, [which] should be ok. But all the high level officials are very rich, they have large amounts of deposits overseas. Where did this money come from? The money was obtained through corruption, bribes and illegal business. Ordinary officials do not have power and cannot get so wealthy; the lower level officials can only become the high level officials' tools to oppress people and steal money.

Reporter: Australia has a very close trade relationship with China; Australia even often ignores the Chinese human rights issue due to consideration of the economy. Do you think the Chinese economy is truly as good as the outside thinks?

Chen: In my view, people outside may feel the Chinese economy is soaring and very good. In fact, inside there are many crises and problems. The financial crisis has come to the verge of collapse. Now, those so-called state enterprises are all in hardship, and many of them have become private enterprises. The surface look of the current economy is a flash in the pan, a mirage, and it is entirely illusory. There is a wide gap between the poor and the rich. The workers who are laid off can hardly maintain the lowest living standard, but the rich people have a huge amount of money. They got rich through the CCP's policies. Jiang Zemin even recruited the capitalists to join the CCP, then does this Party still represent the grass-roots people? It has completely changed and become even more evil.

Reporter: How did you recognise the nature of CCP?

Chen: The CCP killed my father during the Cultural Revolution and my family was broken up due to the persecution, but in return I had to thank it, and feel deeply grateful. As someone said, I studied in the Foreign Affairs College and later became a diplomat, having a very successful diplomatic career; the CCP gave all this to me. But in fact, I feel the reason I could attend the Foreign Affairs College was because I studied very hard. But during the period of working in the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, gradually I have become part of the CCP's state apparatus. Especially when I came to Sydney, my job was to oppose the democratic movement, to oppose the Falun Gong group, this is against my conscience, and against my wishes. The CCP uses this way to make people live with extremely contorted minds. This is against my conscience and wishes.